Towing Two Bumper Hitch 8 X 14 Utility Trailers behind pickup truck?

[Foxman]

Hi,

I'm new here. For many years, I have loved trailers, kind of like how a car lover loves their cars. I had found it an interesting thought as a kid, when I used to collect scrap metal with my brother and grandmother, that when I got older and was driving, to tow two bumper hitched trailers in tandem, to haul more scrap metal or wood or whatever. In my state, it is only legal to tow a second trailer behind a 5th wheel, however, I am not a pervert, but ever since I was a kid, I thought it was stupid that men could go topless in public and women could not. Well, in some states, women have challegned that law, and won the right to be "topfree" by breaking the law, and going topless in public until the police gave them a ticket, then the woman would fight the issue on the 14th amendment that states "equal protection". But anyway, I got into this issue a lot, because I always felt that women had the right to go topless in public, and any perverted men who harrassed the girls should be arrested and jailed for a night our two.

Then there was an even stupider law that some crazed woman fought in Texas. She fought to get the urinal funnels to be removed from all porta potties because she found them very offensive, and won that case (which was stupid to me) and now Texas is supposedly the only state where unisex porta potties are illegal.

So, here was my idea. I would like to tow these two trailers behind a pickup truck that could handle the weight properly, I wanted both trailers to be tandem axle, I want to have electric brakes on both axles of both trailers with two brake controlers mounted in the pickup, and I also wanted to use a Hensley Arrow anti-sway hitch at both connections. Hensley Arrows are rated for towing huge and heavy travel trailers, so I was figuring, if I were hauling the two trailers fully loaded with fire wood or metal, that the Arrows could hold both trailers in line no problem, as even the arrow in the front should handle both trailers fully loaded, because both trailers fully loaded, and combined should weigh only about as much as a travel trailer, and the rear Arrow could handle the one rear trailer just fine. In fact, I emailed the Hensley company about using the Arrows for this purpose, and in their email, the y replied "Hi Tom, we see nothing from our point of view for it not to work fine."

Now I know some people would say, why not just one big trailer instead of two smaller ones? Well for one, two smaller trailers are more maneuverable than one big trailer. And I feel that in some cases, towing two smaller trailers would be easier, even if you can not back up so well. Another issue was sway. Well, the Hensley company claims that the Arrow makes a bumper hitched trailer even safer than a 5th wheel as far as sway goes, plus I talked to a trucker for a few years, who has towed triple trailers down the Ohio Turnpike, and he said he would never want to tow anything less than triples. You just need to be careful. So, if semi truckers can tow up to three huge trailers in some states, I think an average person like me can handle two considerably smaller ones.

Anyway, my idea to fight to legalize towing two bumper hitch trailers, is to break the law, and tow the rig around for a while until a cop gives me a ticket. Then, as the "topfree women battle" goes, I wanted to fight the ticket in the courts, aruging that "Hey, many states allow it. I have picture proof of people towing single axle travel trailers with single axle boats and with single axle jet skie trailers behind them. I have pictures of people towing a single axle boat trailer with a single axle tent trailer behind te boat trailer. I've see a picture of a double place single axle jet ski trailer towing a single axle single jet ski trailer behind that. I have heard of a guy seeing a jet ski behind a boat, and trucks with bumper hitched dump trailers towing a branch chipper behind the dump trailer, and I read about many other doubles at times, and I have even heard of people towing triples in some states, which is usually a 5th wheel towing a boat, with a jet ski trailer behind the boat trailer. So, why can't I tow my combination legally if I am careful, and take all precautions, such as tandem axles, electric brakes on both axles of both trailers, safety chains and Hensley Arrow anti-sway hitches at both connections and a pickup truck that can easily hanle the load?"

I had a state senator who claimed he was going to try to legalize doubles in my state, but he never did try. Then there was another state senator that asked me what the issue was that I wanted fought, and he just blew me off, saying he did not have time for this kind of legislation. Then I finally had another state senator ask his boss about the issue and he said the propsal was meant with staunch opposition from him and a few Secretary of States that he talked to, and therefore, declined to help. So I figured, you know that old saying "You want something done? Do it yourself" and so, that is my plan some time in the future.

Now if someone could fight for an issue as stupid as removing urine funnels from porta potties, and women can fight and win to go topless in their state, I should have little to no trouble sucessfully legalizing tandem trailer towing in my state.

Anyway, the highest I ever heard of a women's topfree/topless legalization battle was between $5,000 and $10,000. So, does anyone here think that a battle to tow two bumper hitched trailers in a state could cost that much, or would it likely be more?

[richp]

Hi,

In this case, it seems to me like you would be exposing yourself to a tremendous cost -- certainly in the tens of thousands of dollars -- for the ability to do something that is of limited value to very few people. That's probably why your legislator didn't get behind your idea very vigorously.

I'm not a lawyer, but I doubt an equal protection argument would work here. There are numerous examples of disparities in state traffic laws, and you'd have a very, very hard time arguing that there should be uniform nationalization of all of them.

Having said that, you are, of course, free to do with your time and money anything you want, as long as you're willing to pay the consequences.

FWIW.

[Inspector]

If it were legal to to tow as you have dicribed the first trailer would have to modified to handle the tongue weight. That would mean esentially that the first trailer would have to be built like your truck. GAWR and be properly framed to handle the additional GCWR. In my opinion you have a very dangerous to tow and very dangerous to those around you when you are towing. All you need to do is watch over the road tandoms going down the road to get an idea of what you would be in for. For that reason there are laws against it.
Just my opinion
Denny

[DmaxMaverick]

Legal double/triple trailers, in every state, don't use ball hitches. The coupler is a pintle (and NOT the ball-pintle adapter). Different animal, altogether. A ball-behind-ball combination isn't legal anywhere that I'm aware of. They are not legal for a reason. For the same reason, you can't double/triple behind a gooseneck. The forward towed vehicles must be 5th wheel, or pintle (triples).

Pursue it if you wish, but it's my guess the only satisfaction in the end will be had by the lawyers.

[Foxman]

Now wait a minute. If its "not" legal, then why did I find so many pictures of so many "ball to ball" connetions? And why have I read posts on different boards where other say they have done it, and do it all the time? I have PICTURE proof that ball to ball doubles ARE legal in some states. That is why I do not get some people saying things like "I don't know of any state where this is legal" Surf the web a bit on "Towing two trailers", or "tandem trailer towing" and you will find all sorts of pictures of ball to ball connected doubles being towed.

As for the idea of 5th wheels being safer. I did say that supposedly, those Hensley Arrow anti-sway hiches DO make a bumper hitch trailer even safer than a 5th wheel hook up. And I plan to buy two of these $3,000 hitches, one for each connection, which are rated for huge and heavy travel trailers, so I am guessing the front Arrow should handle the weight of both trailers fully loaded, as should the rear arrow handle the weight of its one trailer. Also, as I said, I talked to a trucker about this, and all he ever told me was "Make sure your front trailer is equal to or heavier than your rear trailer, and the rig will not sway. This is coming from a guy who constantly tows triple semi trailers down the Ohio Turnpike, so I think he knows what he is talking about.

Also, I already knew that, if I attept legalizing this combination I speak of, that I will need a stronger, custom built trailer for towing the second trailer, but thats no big thing for me. I am also well aware that "custom made" things are expensive, so I am ready to deal with the expenses of a custom made trailer.

No offense guys, but I believe some of the things you are saying are wrong, however, I would also wager that you people are all smarter than me, too, as I am quite new to all of this. I am just going by what I've heard, and what I've seen.

Also, my words in "CAPS" are not me shouting. They are just some of the more important words in my paragraphs, so disregard them as "yelling".

I mean no disrespect toward any of you guys.

[JTodd]

Seriously, instead of spending all that money on towing something illegally, just by a bigger, longer trailer. Of all the injustices in the world, you decide to tilt at the windmill of towing two trailers? What a waste of time.

Oh, by the way, if you think that because you can find a picture on the web of something makes it legal, you are so out of touch you can't see 'touch' from where you are.

Here is a video of someone in California doing 150 mph. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yk0mbjz8nQ&feature=fvst Do you somehow think it is legal to do that in California? But it must, there is an actual video of someone doing it. Next time I drive 100 mph in Indiana, I will get a picture of that so the speed limit laws will be changed here too.

/who is going to volunteer to take a picture of themselves robbing a bank?

[Hooptybass]

I live in ohio and im not sure about that but i do know that its legal to haul a trailer behind a 5 wheel camper in Michigan b.c i have a cousin that does it all the time to and from ohio and he found out the laws up there

[drcook]

some good information regarding this post, but as stated on one of the sites,
the definitive authority is the state agency in the subjective state

http://rv-roadtrips.thefuntimesguide...ple_towing.php

http://www.woodalls.com/articledetai...icleID=1195129

[Foxman]

I live in ohio and im not sure about that but i do know that its legal to haul a trailer behind a 5 wheel camper in Michigan b.c i have a cousin that does it all the time to and from ohio and he found out the laws up there

I did read about someone who saw a guy at a truck stop in Ohio with a boat trailer hitched to their truck, and a jet ski trailer hooked to the rear of the boat trailer, and he asked some guy about it, and what was said was "As long as it stays within the legal length limit, it IS legal"

drcook gave even more information pointing that double ball hitched trailers ARE legal in some places. The first link mentions that some states DO allow you to tow two trailers behind a car, and an rv, as well as a truck, but towing a double behind a truck is the only way you could tow doubles with a fifth wheel. So, even though people here have gotten cocky with me, my argument stands: Towing two BUMPER HITCH traliers IS legal in some states. I know you can not believe everything on the internet, but I also believe that, not everything can be a lie. I've found out from more than one source that doble bumper hitch trailering IS legal in some states.

I have a perfect idea for my combination. My brother brought home a travel trailer from a family member's house that was given to him for free. I beleve it is a 24 footer. The trailer is in very rough shape, so I was thinking of scrapping that trailer and making a utility trailer out of it, and adding a hitch to the bumper of the old travel trailer bumper for hauling an 8 X 14 utility trailer behind it. The travel trailer's frame should be strong ebough to haul a second trailer, as most fifth wheels seem to be.

Sorry guys. I never meant to offend anyone here, but everywhere I talk about this issue people shun me. But just because its something many people think should not be done, does not mean others can't do it. Not everyone on this planet thinks alike.

[JTodd]

i heard from a guy, that heard from a friend that read it on an internet blog that this whole thing is stupid. Why don't you find the pertaining laws and stop asking. You have not been satisfied with the answers provided, and are apparently quite willing to rely on "I heard on the internet that it was OK". You should be able to download motor vehicle regulations on a state by state basis. Why don't you go to the source. I don't think your youtube defense will work if your internet best friend that told you you could is wrong.

[cowboywildbill]

We don't have those problems with our laws here in "THE PEOPLES REPUBLIC OF MARYLAND"
Everything here is illegal, unless you are an Illegal Allien or a Criminal in that case you can do whatever you like! LOL!

[crashz]

Same here in MA, Bill!


Foxman,

Don't take this as an insult, but I see no facts in your argument. I read terms like "...should work..." or "...should handle the weight..." and you have yet to mention what states actually do allow this type of towing. No facts. No engineering data to consider.

Actual commercial truck combinations such as doubles and triples use a very different approach than what is proposed by you and as demonstrated in the photos. Not only are the connections not the same, but the whole approach is different by using dollies, air brake systems (matching brake efforts and braking on all wheels) and specific training for CDL drivers. Adding this amount of complication to an already complicated subject (for the average Joe), would make things even worse on the roads.

Your best approach to this would be to further research this with local, state and federal transportation engineers. To change public safety law, I would expect you will need a study performed by a panel of traffic engineers and professionals to allow the change.

[Edahall]

So far, I have found the most information on this particular subject at the following link:

http://www.boatus.com/trailerclub/west_laws.asp

It appears that out west, towing 2 trailer is permited in Idaho and Utah.

More information here:
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-p...gulations1.htm

[DickWells]

Well, if you still insist on trying this thing, bear in mind that I have a Hensley Arrow hitch, back in Vt. that's still for sale for $1200, and it's complete with original owners manual and 1000 lb. bars. Would save you a bundle, and you wouldn't lose so much if your scheme fails to work.
I doubt very much, however, that a second Hensley, behind another would be a workable situation. The way a Hensley transfers the turning point of a trailer would throw things WAY the heck out of kilter. Doing this with one unit makes sense, but with that front unit switching the front tongue back and forth, and the resulting monkey motion of the rear of the front trailer acting on the rear trailer, you've got yourself a real handful. I remember Nader's book, which was totally out to lunch for the cars it was written for, but would be right on for the above settup. "Unsafe At Any Speed", was the title.

[Foxman]

Well, even if I can not use a Hensley Arrow on both connections, the Hensley website states "The Hensley Arrow anti-sway hitch makes towing a bumper hitched trailer even safer than towing a fith wheel" so, that being the case, I might not even need any special kind of hitch on the rear trailer setup, as it would be similar to, or even better than me towing a fifth wheel and trailer, if the Hensley coments are true, and it is safer. However, I do know that, when I emailed the Hensley people about putting two bumper hitched trailers together in tandem, both with Arrows, they stated to me "We see NO reason why in would not work fine" Now, whether they are just trying to get me to spend an extra $3,000 on another hitch, I'm not sure. But if it is a legitimate company, they would not be lying.

[Foxman]

Same here in MA, Bill!


Foxman,

Don't take this as an insult, but I see no facts in your argument. I read terms like "...should work..." or "...should handle the weight..." and you have yet to mention what states actually do allow this type of towing. No facts. No engineering data to consider.

Actual commercial truck combinations such as doubles and triples use a very different approach than what is proposed by you and as demonstrated in the photos. Not only are the connections not the same, but the whole approach is different by using dollies, air brake systems (matching brake efforts and braking on all wheels) and specific training for CDL drivers. Adding this amount of complication to an already complicated subject (for the average Joe), would make things even worse on the roads.

Your best approach to this would be to further research this with local, state and federal transportation engineers. To change public safety law, I would expect you will need a study performed by a panel of traffic engineers and professionals to allow the change.

I don't take it as an insult at all, but even though I am not exactly sure just "where" it is legal, I have read stories on many other truck and towing boards about people doing it safely, across the country, so therefore, I know it has to be legal in some states. Even though they say "Take everything you read on the internet with a grain of salt" I can not see every person on the internet as a liar.

As for semi trucks using a different type of connection, not to be cocky, and I mean no respect when I say this, but, why does it matter if semi trailers use a different type of connection? Because, from what I have heard and read, and even, from what I've seen, in my lifetime on the road, double, triples, and yes, even single semi trailers sway, so, that being said, what does it matter if I tow two smaller utility trailers, regardless of connection types, that may sway, but are even less likely to kill someone in an accident than a big, heavy semi trailer? Again, I am NOT getting cocky here. Just explaining my views.

As far as needing to study and check with traffic engineers, I believe that the trucking industry has already done this, and the first state Senator I talked to, was going to introduce a bill for me, and did not seem too worried at all on safety issues. He said that the trucking industry was trying to legalize it here, so obviously they did not view it as "dangerous" He was going to introduce a bill for recreational tandems, but said that, when he was wording it, he could make it broader, to include legalizing the trailer combination I wanted to tow. He never got the chance to introduce the bill though, and I don't know why. I just found out a few months later that he was no longer a state senator, so I do not know what happened, but another Senator told me that it did not look like the other one worked on any legislation in that area, and he told me to tell him what I wanted legalized, and I told him, and he said that, at the time, he did not have the time to introduce that legislation, so he was probably just blowing me off, I figure. Now, about two years ago, I asked another state Senator about it, as I said, and he talked to his main boss, and the idea was met with staunch opposition by his boss, and several Secretary of State offices, and thats when I learned that I simply am not going to get any help from the government, and therefore, I must take action into my own hands. Like I said "You want something done? Do it yourself" I know I could lose the case, but like I said, I have seen and heard of people arguing laws that were ten thousand times stupider than towing two trailers, that succeeded and passed into law, so if I do have the money to fight for it in the future, I likely will. As I always say, "Someone has to take a stand somewhere".

As I said, I mean no disrespect toward anyone on these boards, but if towing two trailers is being done safely in other states, it can be done safely in mine.

[DickWells]

We had a French guy, Ragine, from Quebec, show up at our park last fall, with a 27' motor home, a small sedan on a stiff hitch, with a 900 Kawasaki on a trailer behind it all! Don't know all the states he went through, getting to Texas, but he did say he got stopped and warned a couple of times. It all ended at the Mexican border. They wouldn't let him in, because (they said) he couldn't drive 3 rigs at once! They weren't worried about two at a time. Go figure.
Now, this guy, who has one glass eye, didn't have a problem, but, his second rig was pretty well stuck to the motor home, a big difference, I would think.
His final answer to the whole thing of getting into Mexico, was to get one of his girl friends down there, and having her drive accross, into Mx with the bike behind her own car. Then he hooked back up, and cruized on to S. Mexico, never to be heard from again.
I honestly think that if you study the Hensley design, you'll see that with one trailer, the stabilizing action is downright fantastic. An engineering marvel. But that very action causes a lot of side motion to the tongue of the first trailer. The adjustment procedure for getting the thing set up for one trailer is pretty involved, but when it's done, it does, indeed make a trailer very stable. The ONLY reason I'm not still using mine is, that the Hensley is rated for 10 K LBS, max, and my unit is usually above 11 K. Got me a little anstsy, so I went back to my dual cam settup, which is also very stable. Also, the Hensley bars are 1000 lb, and my dual cam bars are twelve-hundred, while my tongue weight is usually just over 1100.
I assume that you do know how to set up your weight distribution on your tag- alongs. I once bought a little 8' X 8" trailer with 8" wheels, and towed it home from NH with my 6.5 Suburban. That thing was set up with a 50/50 location for the axle, and until I put a cement block in the front of it, it yanked the rear of that Burb all over the road at 50 MPH! I ended up re-building the dang thing and now have one of the nicest utility trailers around, with a 3' longer tongue, 2/3 of the box in front, and it's 5' X 8', now. A lot better, but with, probably, $800 tied up in it, the lesson was a hard one. Should have gone to Home Depot, and saved a bunch of money and work. Live and learn. Oh yeah, and that was the project where I got tangled up with a 9" angle grinder on the outside of my left wrist, and looked down to see a bunch of nothing but white bone and a lot of little white squiggly things sticking out of a 3/4" wide groove, until the blood filled it all in and started dribbling all over the floor! My left pinky is still numb, 12 years later. Talk about your gold plated trailers!

[crashz]

Fox,

I admire your willingness and drive and agree that many people fight for foolish issues. However I feel that to gain any real legal ground, you will need to technically prove that towing tandem recreational trailers is a safe practice. You would probably need some technical specifications that could be modified to produce regulatory language as well, so that the proper procedures could be enforced out on the road.

My comments regarding commercial doubles and triples are in regards to trailer stability. With dollies, the second and third trailers are supported independently. In rolling form, they completely support themselves and support traveling forces (weight, pitching, centripetal forces, centrifugal forces, braking, impact from road iregularities, etc.). The only thing provided by the tractor is air supply, electrical power and motive power.

This would not be the case with tandem ball mounted trailers. In fact, each trailer would be dependent on each other as well as proportionally dependent on the tow vehicle for forward stability and support of trailer weight. Lateral stability would completely be independent to a the maximum angle allowed by both ball hitches, but only normally supported at one location (the wheels) per trailer.

As pointed out early by you Fox, a sway controller and equal braking would be needed. Not much room for error here either as the three units in a double would act like an accordian if not balanced just right. The rear trailer would need to provide enough drag to keep the combination in line, but cannot weigh more than the forward trailer or it may slide it side to side.

You're going to fight an uphill battle, my friend. If it can be done safely, it will be to complicated for the average person. And to convince regulators will take lots of time and money. Best of luck!

[Foxman]

Fox,

I admire your willingness and drive and agree that many people fight for foolish issues. However I feel that to gain any real legal ground, you will need to technically prove that towing tandem recreational trailers is a safe practice. You would probably need some technical specifications that could be modified to produce regulatory language as well, so that the proper procedures could be enforced out on the road.

My comments regarding commercial doubles and triples are in regards to trailer stability. With dollies, the second and third trailers are supported independently. In rolling form, they completely support themselves and support traveling forces (weight, pitching, centripetal forces, centrifugal forces, braking, impact from road iregularities, etc.). The only thing provided by the tractor is air supply, electrical power and motive power.

This would not be the case with tandem ball mounted trailers. In fact, each trailer would be dependent on each other as well as proportionally dependent on the tow vehicle for forward stability and support of trailer weight. Lateral stability would completely be independent to a the maximum angle allowed by both ball hitches, but only normally supported at one location (the wheels) per trailer.

As pointed out early by you Fox, a sway controller and equal braking would be needed. Not much room for error here either as the three units in a double would act like an accordian if not balanced just right. The rear trailer would need to provide enough drag to keep the combination in line, but cannot weigh more than the forward trailer or it may slide it side to side.

You're going to fight an uphill battle, my friend. If it can be done safely, it will be to complicated for the average person. And to convince regulators will take lots of time and money. Best of luck!

Crash,

My main argument was going to be that I am aware that other states do allow this practice, and therefore, it can not be so dangerous as to be outlawed. Not sure how much legal ground that will gain me, but I was also thinking of making it a discriminating argument too, saying "Hey, if they can do it there, why can't I do it here?" and such. Also, although tandem recreational vehicles would be involved in my fight for legal bumper-hitched doubles, my main concern is getting it legal for any stable tandem combination, such as two utilitity trailers, as long as the rear trailer weighs equal to, or less than the front trailer. I talked to a trucker who tows triple semi trailers up and down the Ohio Turnpike, and he told me, as long as the front trailer weighs more than the rear trailer, then the rig will not sway. I would think a trucker towing three trailers, would know what he was talking about, when giving someone advice on towing two.

As for how standard double and triple semi trailers work, I am aware that they work differently from a passenger vehicle and trailers, but as I said, I have seen double, and even single semi trailers swaying, so what is the difference if I have two swaying trailers, so long as they are swaying mildly, and do not get wildly out of control? Its not like I am going to continue on going, if I sense danger.

I do understand that I would need equal braking on both trailers. Even if two light weight utility trailers are not required to have brakes, by my state's laws, I am still going to use tandem axle trailers, with brakes on both axles of both trailers, and two seperate brake controllers if needed.

One question I do have, though, is, do I need seperate brake controllers, or would one brake controller be able to handle the two trailers alone? I always figured I needed two. One for each trailer.

I may not have a good argument either way, but I may still make a try for it, based on the information I have seen and research I have done.

[JTodd]

Crash,

My main argument was going to be that I am aware that other states do allow this practice, and therefore, it can not be so dangerous as to be outlawed. Not sure how much legal ground that will gain me, but I was also thinking of making it a discriminating argument too, saying "Hey, if they can do it there, why can't I do it here?"

Poor argument. States legislate individually highway regulations. Examples: varying speed limits and pollution standards.

I talked to a trucker who tows triple semi trailers up and down the Ohio Turnpike, and he told me, as long as the front trailer weighs more than the rear trailer, then the rig will not sway. I would think a trucker towing three trailers, would know what he was talking about, when giving someone advice on towing two.

So your alternate argument is that if a well regulated, regularly inspected, commercially licensed hauler can do it, Joe Schmo with two beat up utility trailers should be able to as well? Remember, you may think your setup is top notch, but any law you think your state should have will include every hillbilly towing whatever piece of crap they can strap one after the other. Are you prepared for that?