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Thread: No actual ip timing signal

  1. #1
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    Default No actual ip timing signal

    98 k2500 automatic

    Bought it not running right, have replaced the pmd so far and that helped get it to stop revving way up then wayy down over and over.

    Installed new 5 micron fuel filter (removed fuel module)and 115gph 9psi pump.

    Had 1/2 tank offroad fuel, i topped off with new clean non-syn hydraulic oil

    Started and revved good for a few weeks, didnt have time to get it out and road test, but ran it alot, burned 1/2 tank just doing this over the few weeks

    Finally get to road test and throws a 251/370 set of codes, and goes into limp mode. Check fuel, it is not cloudy or wet, but is dark - ish red.

    Hook up scanner again(i have a tec2 and AE) and i am not getting a “actual pump timing”

    Desired is a 12.9 on a cold start, will drop to 11 once warm
    Tdco is at -.53 steady

    I can twist the pump anywhere and my actual stays at “0”

    Went ahead and pulled optic and “cleaned” (fwiw)

    Reinstalled, lined up the line on the camring with the edge of the sensor, and the factory line on the sensor to the holdown square thing.

    No change. It will start and run but its a hard code, i clear it and it comes right back, like the sensor is just dead. Can someone give me a connector pinout, so i can at least check power/ground to it?

    But whats a little wierd to me, is i can move it (the OS) too far and get a hard crank and lope at idle, but still show “0” on the actual.

    I thought the optic is what read actual?

    Thanks

  2. #2
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    If you are talking about the timing on my 95 the engine has to be up to temp (I believe 185 deg ) before the timing will set and stay.
    1995 Chev 4X4 1500 Suburban 6.5 TD,Phazer Gear Kit from JK, High Capacity Water Pump Kit from JK. Special Calibration fan clutch W/8 blade fan from JK
    1995 Chev 4X4 2500 Suburban 6.5 TD>>SOL-D (parts car)
    1999 Chev 4X4 2500 Suburban 454 "Gas Hog" with Hiniker C-Plow

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by N9Phil View Post
    If you are talking about the timing on my 95 the engine has to be up to temp (I believe 185 deg ) before the timing will set and stay.
    Phil its warm, ect is 190*, IP still shows actual at “0”

    No matter where i turn the pump it stays at “0”.
    If i do a time set, and the desired runs down to “0”, still the same thing, i can twist the pump around and the actual stays at “0”

  4. #4
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    If you send me a private message with your e-mail I have 1999 service manual and I can send you a pdf of the info on PO 251 and 370 test procedures
    These might help
    Phil
    1995 Chev 4X4 1500 Suburban 6.5 TD,Phazer Gear Kit from JK, High Capacity Water Pump Kit from JK. Special Calibration fan clutch W/8 blade fan from JK
    1995 Chev 4X4 2500 Suburban 6.5 TD>>SOL-D (parts car)
    1999 Chev 4X4 2500 Suburban 454 "Gas Hog" with Hiniker C-Plow

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by High Toned SOB View Post

    Had 1/2 tank offroad fuel, i topped off with new clean non-syn hydraulic oil

    Before going much further, I would drain the fuel out and put fresh # 2 in. The optic sensors in the DS4 do not like anything other than standard # 2. I used to run home-brewed BIO, and I had consistent issues with timing and missing. Everytime I switched back to regular fuel, she would clear up and run normally again.

    Casey
    1995 K1500 Tahoe 2 door, 6.5LTD, 4L80E, NP241, 3.42's, 285/75R16 BFG K02's; 1997 506 block; Kennedy OPS harness, gauges, Quick Heat plugs, and TD-Max chip; Dtech FSD on FSD Cooler; vacuum pump deleted, HX35 turbo, Turbo Master, 3.5" Kennedy exhaust, F code intake; dual t/stats, HO water pump, Champion radiator; Racor fuel filter

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by arveetek View Post
    Before going much further, I would drain the fuel out and put fresh # 2 in. The optic sensors in the DS4 do not like anything other than standard # 2. I used to run home-brewed BIO, and I had consistent issues with timing and missing. Everytime I switched back to regular fuel, she would clear up and run normally again.

    Casey
    Wow so you cant even run bio?? So much for my wmo in this one ive ran wmo in everything ive had so far ; 7.3, 6.0, 5.9, and the old 6.2...... i guess the 6.5 is the finicky red headed stepchild.

    Casey i would do that, but.........

    This seems like a “all of a sudden” problem, considering it has tan/revved,started great for a month. And the fact that i am stuck at “0” no matter what. Its a hard code. Like i can clear it with the engine running and as soon as it clears it, it comes right back, instantly. Like its a circut/sensor malfunction.
    But i may end up doing it anyways just to be sure.
    Last edited by High Toned SOB; 04-07-2019 at 19:21. Reason: Had to comment about the 6.5 being a lame electronics system

  7. #7
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    And the fact that i am stuck at “0” no matter what.
    Are you using a Tech II scan tool? Can you set the timing using a Tech II?

    Otherwise, I agree with arveetek. The DS4 is picky about fuel color and fuel quality. The pricey DS4 is also not a good candidate for alternative fuels, fuel supplements (like oil), or off-road red-dyed diesel fuel. Jim

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by More Power View Post
    Are you using a Tech II scan tool? Can you set the timing using a Tech II?

    Otherwise, I agree with arveetek. The DS4 is picky about fuel color and fuel quality. The pricey DS4 is also not a good candidate for alternative fuels, fuel supplements (like oil), or off-road red-dyed diesel fuel. Jim
    I have a tech2 and auto enginuity. Both have the same result. Actual ip timing is at “0” all the time no matter where i move the pump or rev it, etc etc.

    I am gonna run a clean 5 gallon jug to it tonight. If it goes past 8 counts does it just stop trying to use the optic, and go to default? If so, that would explain why its not intermittent.

    I hope you guys are right, that would be nice. But im gonna regret buying this thing then, as i have a killer ststem for wmo and have used it in so many others without any issues, except the mighty cummins didnt like 100% from about 45* and colder.

    This beast has 4.10’s too hahahahaha

  9. #9
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  10. #10
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    I forgot how mountain dew lookin “legal” fuel is

    is9A92301D-3606-4B37-B229-4D0566C45AEB.jpg

  11. #11
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    Emptied out the tank completely, and added 5 gallons onroad.
    Started up and ran, i still have the upper intake off, and im sure the pump and optic is way off now, i have only practically rolled the pump 360*, lol.

    Still here after a while

    5B64BD3C-D999-42F9-8959-33D040080B4B.jpg


    D0008279-8A23-4BFA-9E0C-74BD4132E957.jpg

  12. #12
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    Default Sorry guys my service where i live is crap, i am doing this a pic at a time

    Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha


    Ha

    4C677D52-BB8C-46EA-81FA-1538BDF1870D.jpg


    So my fuel rate is low. I want to set the optic better and turn the pump to -1.94 or so.
    So optic to passenger side.....do “time set” and try to get it at -1.94....then do a tdc set last?

  13. #13
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    Thank you guys for the help. Never thought these pumps were that finicky. I have done some wild stuff to the 2831 pumps, i guess the only similarity’s is they are both rotary, lol.
    Such a stupid setup to use a optic sensor. Gotta be different i guess

  14. #14
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    Arrow

    I don't get a lot of reports, but enough through the years to know red fuel can cause DS4 optical sensor problems. Probably doesn't happen every time, but there are a nearly infinite number of combinations/components involved.

    States with the highest fuel taxes and most stringent vehicle emissions regulations tend to be real hammers with fines and punishment when on-road users are caught in road-side fuel checks. It can be real tough... Generally not worth the risk to have red fuel in the tank...

    Secondarily... till diesel fuel reaches nose bleed heights in pump prices, there's too much risk to the fuel injection system to warrant using alternative fuels.

    Thank you for creating this forum topic and posting the scan tool images. It benefits the community... Jim

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by High Toned SOB View Post
    Thank you guys for the help. Never thought these pumps were that finicky. I have done some wild stuff to the 2831 pumps, i guess the only similarity’s is they are both rotary, lol.
    Such a stupid setup to use a optic sensor. Gotta be different i guess
    If you have your mind made up to use this truck...
    It is still doable.You could do a switch to a mechanical pump and a stand alone controller for the trans.
    If you have a large supply of alternate fuel then it might be worth it to switch and have the comfort of the Suburban.
    90 Chev 3500 c/c 4x4,6.2na,400 auto,4:10 gears.DSG Timing gears,main girdle, isspro tach, pyro,boost,oil and trany temp.Dual Tstats, High volume peninsular pump,on shelf, Custom turbo and intercooler 85%complete. Change of plans for the dually, it's going to get a Cummins. Both trucks are Blue 90 4x4 crews

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yukon6.2 View Post
    If you have your mind made up to use this truck...
    It is still doable.You could do a switch to a mechanical pump and a stand alone controller for the trans.
    If you have a large supply of alternate fuel then it might be worth it to switch and have the comfort of the Suburban.
    Yukon, if the pump craps out (before i sell it) thats what ill do. Hopefully not. Its a pretty decent truck, dont see alot of 3/4 ton extended shortbed diesels around here. Plus it has the 4.10’s to do some work. Maybe even throw a stepside bed on it. I have bought a ton of stuff for it, wheels, nerf bars, stereo stuff, etc.
    But im coming out of much better trucks, we shall shee

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by More Power View Post
    I don't get a lot of reports, but enough through the years to know red fuel can cause DS4 optical sensor problems. Probably doesn't happen every time, but there are a nearly infinite number of combinations/components involved.

    States with the highest fuel taxes and most stringent vehicle emissions regulations tend to be real hammers with fines and punishment when on-road users are caught in road-side fuel checks. It can be real tough... Generally not worth the risk to have red fuel in the tank...

    Secondarily... till diesel fuel reaches nose bleed heights in pump prices, there's too much risk to the fuel injection system to warrant using alternative fuels.

    Thank you for creating this forum topic and posting the scan tool images. It benefits the community... Jim

    In California if you are caught with red fuel they assume entire mileage on truck was run red and it is up to you to provide receipts for green fuel or face tax evasion on all miles not backed up with receipts. They want their money!
    "The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government."
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    A5150nut
    2006 K3500 D/A
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  18. #18
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    Before I retired from commercial trucking the IRS would set up at road side weigh stations to do fuel checks.

    When you drove in an agent handed you a piece of paper explaining that they wanted to test your fuel for Red Dye.... They never spoke to you at all..

    The paper explained what they wanted and that if you refused to allow them to check, it was an automatic violation....

    Just smile at the agent and said "There is a tank on both sides...have at it"

    They dip the tank with a glass/plastic tube and lift it just enough to see the color.

    Had that happen a few times after they went to the ULSD

    There has never been any light duty rig checks here that I am aware of. (Oregon) I know a few folks that run all manner of "burnables" in their diesels.

    Wvo, filtered waste engine oil, filtered waste auto tranny oil.

    As mentioned, the DS4 is very fussy and was designed to run the nearly clear ULSD and anything that is cloudy or hinders the optic sensor will foul the functions.

    The old DB2 pumps would handle Bunker C (Not really, but most oils thin enough to flow will work)
    (1) 1995 Suburban 2500 4x4
    (1) 1997 Astro
    (1) 2005 Suburban (Papa Smurf)
    THIS IS BOW TIE COUNTRY

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by High Toned SOB View Post
    Wow so you cant even run bio?? So much for my wmo in this one...
    Yup. My dad and I made home-brewed BIO for a few years back when fuel prices were really high. My DB2 6.2L didn't care what I put in the tank, it would run just fine. So did my Dad's 7.3L Powerstroke. But, my electronic DS4 always acted goofy, and caused me more than one injection pump swap, and one Optic sensor swap. I finally gave up on the BIO (even though I did run it for about 3 years), and was glad when fuel prices came back down.

    With my engine running really nice now, I don't dare to put any BIO back in the tank of my electronic 6.5L.

    Casey
    1995 K1500 Tahoe 2 door, 6.5LTD, 4L80E, NP241, 3.42's, 285/75R16 BFG K02's; 1997 506 block; Kennedy OPS harness, gauges, Quick Heat plugs, and TD-Max chip; Dtech FSD on FSD Cooler; vacuum pump deleted, HX35 turbo, Turbo Master, 3.5" Kennedy exhaust, F code intake; dual t/stats, HO water pump, Champion radiator; Racor fuel filter

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by More Power View Post
    I don't get a lot of reports, but enough through the years to know red fuel can cause DS4 optical sensor problems. Probably doesn't happen every time, but there are a nearly infinite number of combinations/components involved.
    In other threads there has been the suggestion to run a pint or two per tank of TC-W3 marine outboard engine oil to improve lubricity. Does the blue color to that cause any issues - for a couple pints per tank?
    '94 GMC 6.5TD K1500 4L80E 2-Door Yukon SLE 221K
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