Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 88

Thread: NV4500 Tranny Trouble

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Kelowna, BC
    Posts
    1,070

    Default Tranny And Clutch

    When the clutch and flywheel went on me originally, I talked with a few different places,(Tranny Shops, Mechanics), and the general consensus was that the single mass was better.

    Now, on another note. Finally tried driving the truck today. It spent some time in the driveway as I did work on the engine. New glows and a girdle for the valve cover so it wouldn't leak anymore. Had my dad give me a hand bleeding out the clutch. Can't seem to get it to stiffen up. It will seem to have pressure, but then it will get softer. Very frustrating. Then when it is running, you still have to pull it into gear and then with the clutch pedal in, it is engaging and pulling truck forward. Once in gear with the clutch up, it is very solid contact. Won't go into overdrive either. I am trying to figure out if this is due to the slave cylinder not pushing in far enough. I am thinking of taking a pushrod and making a longer slave rod. I dunno.
    1993 HD2500- 4X4, Nv4500, rc/lb, Lots of mods, killed her. Awaiting her TT rebuild!

    2002 Camaro L36/M49- Killed In Action

    1995 HD2500 - 4X4, NV4500 rc/lb, GL4, Turbo, exhaust

    1994 HD2500- 4X4, NV4500, ec/lb

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Location
    South Central Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    2,697

    Default

    Hmmm... Hard to say. My Toyota you can adjust the slave cylinder linkage, but that isn't an option on this setup. You didn't specifically mention replacing the ball - you did, didn't you?

    From what I've seen on the forums here it seems to be in favor of going single-mass. I sent an e-mail in to RockAuto to make sure that I was understanding the part numbers and the differences. Looks like that is the route I'm going to take.
    '94 GMC 6.5TD K1500 4L80E 2-Door Yukon SLE 221K
    '93 Chevrolet 6.5TD K2500HD NV4500 Std. Cab Longbed 187K
    '85 Toyota 22R RN60 4x4 Std. Cab Shortbed 178K (Currently retired for rebuild)
    Diesel Page Member #2423

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Kelowna, BC
    Posts
    1,070

    Default Fork

    Are you talking about the ball stud that the fork pivots on? That I did replace. Really trying to figure this out as it is pissing me off. Oh well, in a month or two I will have forgotten about this whole thing and be driving the truck like nothing happened.

    Up here in Canada I paid $1100 for a new flywheel and clutch pack. From what I have heard, there is just to many parts on the dual for starters, and then there was a few other things that people didn't like.
    1993 HD2500- 4X4, Nv4500, rc/lb, Lots of mods, killed her. Awaiting her TT rebuild!

    2002 Camaro L36/M49- Killed In Action

    1995 HD2500 - 4X4, NV4500 rc/lb, GL4, Turbo, exhaust

    1994 HD2500- 4X4, NV4500, ec/lb

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Location
    South Central Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    2,697

    Default

    Someone else will have to chime in on possible solutions - there doesn't seem to be many options for adjustment with the setup and if all parts (slave, ball pivot, and fork) are new there shouldn't be anything out of alignment...

    RockAuto seems to be about $1100 with all the parts too. I saw a couple people mentioning South Bend Clutch as having a "preferred" setup so I e-mailed them for costs and options as they have a standard and a "performance" version - performance one has a Kevlar clutch disk.
    '94 GMC 6.5TD K1500 4L80E 2-Door Yukon SLE 221K
    '93 Chevrolet 6.5TD K2500HD NV4500 Std. Cab Longbed 187K
    '85 Toyota 22R RN60 4x4 Std. Cab Shortbed 178K (Currently retired for rebuild)
    Diesel Page Member #2423

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Location
    South Central Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    2,697

    Default

    Just got the reply back from South Bend Clutch - wow! Their "performance" kit - with Kevlar clutch kit and flywheel included - is significantly less than the ACDelco "regular" setup with clutch kit and flywheel.

    Unless anyone has any complaints or warnings, that looks like the direction I'm going to go with things.

    They do recommend the transmission dampner talked about in other threads if you are switching from a DMF to a SMF. Have to decide whether I want to go for that or not. Actually, come to think of it, I wonder if that is included in the price of the ACDelco kit...
    '94 GMC 6.5TD K1500 4L80E 2-Door Yukon SLE 221K
    '93 Chevrolet 6.5TD K2500HD NV4500 Std. Cab Longbed 187K
    '85 Toyota 22R RN60 4x4 Std. Cab Shortbed 178K (Currently retired for rebuild)
    Diesel Page Member #2423

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Kelowna, BC
    Posts
    1,070

    Default Dampener

    Don't seem to remember putting that in.....
    1993 HD2500- 4X4, Nv4500, rc/lb, Lots of mods, killed her. Awaiting her TT rebuild!

    2002 Camaro L36/M49- Killed In Action

    1995 HD2500 - 4X4, NV4500 rc/lb, GL4, Turbo, exhaust

    1994 HD2500- 4X4, NV4500, ec/lb

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Location
    South Central Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    2,697

    Default

    Reading here and elsewhere, there are some who have added the tranny dampener based on it being a "recommended must-have" and others who haven't added it and see no difference... South Bend said that it is a dealer-only item.
    '94 GMC 6.5TD K1500 4L80E 2-Door Yukon SLE 221K
    '93 Chevrolet 6.5TD K2500HD NV4500 Std. Cab Longbed 187K
    '85 Toyota 22R RN60 4x4 Std. Cab Shortbed 178K (Currently retired for rebuild)
    Diesel Page Member #2423

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Kelowna, BC
    Posts
    1,070

    Default Dampener

    Now that I really think about it, I don't remember putting it in at all. I remember reading up on it, but then deciding that I could do without. Of course if it comes with the clutch kit........
    1993 HD2500- 4X4, Nv4500, rc/lb, Lots of mods, killed her. Awaiting her TT rebuild!

    2002 Camaro L36/M49- Killed In Action

    1995 HD2500 - 4X4, NV4500 rc/lb, GL4, Turbo, exhaust

    1994 HD2500- 4X4, NV4500, ec/lb

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Location
    South Central Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    2,697

    Default

    Might have some info for you, 6.5DD.

    Talked to Peter at South Bend Clutch to order my replacement kit. Their kit comes with the flywheel, clutch disc, pressure plate, alignment tool, and throw-out bearing. I asked if there was anything else I'd need or that he'd recommend. He mentioned the tranny dampener again and also suggested replacing the fork and pivot ball - which I said was the reason I was going in there in the first place... He said that it was all pretty straightforward, but that there was one common mistake. He said to make sure that you put the clip and fork into the groove of the bearing together - don't split them apart. Without seeing it first hand, I can't quite picture what he was saying, but he said I'd understand when I saw it. But he said that people commonly split them apart and then have engagement problems.

    Having done the replacement, if you can picture what he is saying and didn't keep them together that is likely your problem. Hope that helps!
    '94 GMC 6.5TD K1500 4L80E 2-Door Yukon SLE 221K
    '93 Chevrolet 6.5TD K2500HD NV4500 Std. Cab Longbed 187K
    '85 Toyota 22R RN60 4x4 Std. Cab Shortbed 178K (Currently retired for rebuild)
    Diesel Page Member #2423

  10. #30
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Peace Dale, RI, USA
    Posts
    566

    Default

    FWIW, I have been into my clutch 3 times. Once to do the rear main, then to do the input shaft seal and lastly to replace the fork, pivot and throughout bearing. Did the pilot bushing once. The disk was replaced at 118K by the PO right before I bought the truck. I am still using the ORIGINAL pressure plate and dual mass flywheel. Truck now has 252K on it. The master and slave blew when the fork/pivot went south. The bleeding process was VERY tedious and I experienced all the issues you are having. Keep working the clutch and try to bleed it. It will eventually start working normally. When the dual mass, etc. finally quits South Bend will get my business. Grease the pivot every time you do the chassis which for me is every 4K. RT
    93 C2500HD, ExCab, 6.5TD, 5speed, 3.42's, Isspro gauges, Banks/BD exhaust, DSG Geardrive, GM 8 with Turbomaster boost controller, advanced/turned up pump.

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Location
    South Central Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    2,697

    Default

    RT, thanks for reminding me about the rear main seal and input seal - should replace those while I'm in there... Finishing putting my parts order together today.
    '94 GMC 6.5TD K1500 4L80E 2-Door Yukon SLE 221K
    '93 Chevrolet 6.5TD K2500HD NV4500 Std. Cab Longbed 187K
    '85 Toyota 22R RN60 4x4 Std. Cab Shortbed 178K (Currently retired for rebuild)
    Diesel Page Member #2423

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Location
    South Central Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    2,697

    Default

    Got all my parts on order. The package from South Bend Clutch came yesterday - prompt shipping, carefully packaged, and Peter answered all my questions. I went with the heavy-duty Kevlar clutch - the SM flywheel, clutch, alignment tool, and bearings was under $700 shipped to my door. VERY pleased with the service.

    Now just have to wait for the RockAuto and dealer items to get here and clear some time out to work on the truck.
    '94 GMC 6.5TD K1500 4L80E 2-Door Yukon SLE 221K
    '93 Chevrolet 6.5TD K2500HD NV4500 Std. Cab Longbed 187K
    '85 Toyota 22R RN60 4x4 Std. Cab Shortbed 178K (Currently retired for rebuild)
    Diesel Page Member #2423

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Location
    South Central Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    2,697

    Default

    Talking with the GM parts counter person, the transmission dampener is nearly $500. But he included the TSB that recommends the dampener addition as follows (red, bold highlights mine):

    #66-72-02B: MANUAL TRANSMISSION RATTLE NOISE AT IDLE - (Feb 1, 1997)

    REVISION: 01/27/97
    THIS BULLETIN IS BEING REVISED TO ADD THE 1992-95 MODEL YEARS AND CHANGE PART NUMBERS. PLEASE DISCARD CORPORATE BULLETIN NUMBER 66-72-02 (SECTION 7 - TRANSMISSION). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- REVISION: 02/20/97
    THIS BULLETIN IS BEING REVISED TO CHANGE A LABOR OPERATION NUMBER. PLEASE DISCARD CORPORATE BULLETIN NUMBER 66-72-02A (SECTION 7 - TRANSMISSION).
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------- SUBJECT: MANUAL TRANSMISSION RATTLE NOISE AT IDLE (INSTALL CONVENTIONAL FLYWHEEL)
    MODELS: 1992-96 CHEVROLET AND GMC C/K 2-3 MODELS WITH 6.5L DIESEL ENGINE (VIN'S F, P - RPO'S L65, L49) AND NV4500 5 SPEED MANUAL TRANSMISSIONS (RPO'S MW3, MT8)

    CONDITION:

    SOME OWNERS MAY COMMENT ABOUT A RATTLE OR BANGING NOISE FROM THE TRANSMISSION WHILE THE ENGINE IS IDLING, THE CLUTCH ENGAGED (CLUTCH PEDAL RELEASED) AND THE TRANSMISSION IS IN NEUTRAL. THIS CONDITION IS MORE LIKELY TO OCCUR ON A VEHICLE THAT IDLES FOR PROLONGED PERIODS OF TIME. THIS RATTLE SHOULD NOT BE CONFUSED WITH NORMAL ROLL- OVER NOISE (TURNING BEARING/WHIRRING NOISE) WHICH IS GENERATED WHILE THE TRANSMISSION IS IN NEUTRAL, CLUTCH ENGAGED AND ENGINE IDLING.
    CAUSE:

    FAILURE OF THE HYSTERESIS DAMPER INSIDE THE DUAL MASS FLYWHEEL (DMF).
    CORRECTION:

    INSTALL A CONVENTIONAL FLYWHEEL, REVISED CLUTCH KIT AND A TRANSMISSION DAMPER. THESE REVISED PARTS ARE CURRENTLY INSTALLED IN 1997 MODEL TRUCKS.
    IMPORTANT: INSTALLATION OF THESE PARTS WILL RESULT IN SOME DRIVE RATTLE (TRANSMISSION GROWL) WHEN DRIVING AT ABOUT 900 RPM OR LESS. NORMAL DMF SHUT-DOWN RATTLE WILL BE ELIMINATED IF THE CLUTCH IS DISENGAGED (PEDAL DEPRESSED), BUT RATTLE WILL OCCUR IF THE ENGINE IS SHUT-OFF WITH THE TRANSMISSION IN NEUTRAL AND THE CLUTCH ENGAGED (FOOT OFF PEDAL). THIS RATTLE IS FROM THE TRANSMISSION AND CAN NOT BE ELIMINATED BY TRANSMISSION REPAIR OR REPLACEMENT.

    SERVICE PROCEDURE:

    REFER TO THE APPROPRIATE YEAR SERVICE MANUAL SECTION 7C FOR CLUTCH REPLACEMENT PROCEDURES. WHEN INSTALLING THE NEW FLYWHEEL, THE RETAINING RING FROM THE DMF IS NOT USED.
    4-WHEEL DRIVE: THE DAMPER IS INSTALLED BETWEEN THE TRANSMISSION AND THE TRANSFER CASE. TO INSTALL THE DAMPER, THE TRANSMISSION REAR EXTENSION HOUSING MUST BE REMOVED. REFER TO THE APPROPRIATE YEAR UNIT REPAIR MANUAL, SECTION 7B8, NV4500 MANUAL TRANSMISSION FOR DETAILS. WHEN INSTALLING THE DAMPER NUT, APPLY LOCTITE(R) 242, P/N 12345493, TO THE NUT THREADS AND TORQUE THE NUT TO 325 LB. FT. (441 N.M).
    2-WHEEL DRIVE: THE DAMPER IS PART OF THE YOKE ASSEMBLY. REPLACEMENT OF THE YOKE IS REQUIRED. TO INSTALL THE YOKE, REFER TO THE APPROPRIATE YEAR UNIT REPAIR MANUAL, SECTION 7B8, NV4500 MANUAL TRANSMISSION. WHEN INSTALLING THE YOKE/DAMPER NUT, USE LOCTITE(R) 242, P/N 12345493, ON THE NUT THREADS AND TORQUE THE NUT TO 325 LB. FT. (441 N.M).
    IMPORTANT: YOKE/DAMPER NOT USED ON 15,000 LB. MODELS

    THE FOLLOWING FASTENER TIGHTENING SPECIFICATIONS SHOULD BE USED: -REAR EXTENSION-TO-CASE BOLTS 40 LB. FT. (54 N.M) -FLYWHEEL-TO-CRANKSHAFT BOLTS 65 LB. FT. (90 N.M) -PRESSURE PLATE-TO-FLYWHEEL BOLTS 25 LB. FT. (35 N.M)
    NOTICE: THIS TRANSMISSION REQUIRES A SPECIAL SYNTHETIC LUBRICANT, P/N 12346190. DO NOT SUBSTITUTE ANY OTHER LUBRICANT AS INTERNAL TRANSMISSION DAMAGE MAY RESULT. TRANSMISSION CAPACITY IS 4 QUARTS (3.78L).

    PARTS INFORMATION
    P/N DESCRIPTION QTY 12375179 '92-95 K L49/L65 FLYWHEEL KIT 1 12375180 '92-95 C L49/L65 FLYWHEEL KIT 1 12375181 '96 K L49/L65 FLYWHEEL KIT 1 12375182 '96 C L49/L65 FLYWHEEL KIT 1 14061685 PILOT BEARING 1 12345493 THREAD LOCK SEALANT A/R 12346190 MANUAL TRANSMISSION FLUID 4
    PARTS ARE CURRENTLY AVAILABLE FROM GMSPO.
    WARRANTY INFORMATION:

    FOR VEHICLES REPAIRED UNDER WARRANTY, USE:
    LABOR OPERATION DESCRIPTION LABOR TIME J1420 FLYWHEEL, MANUAL TRANSMISSION-REPLACE USE PUBLISHED K2160 TRANSMISSION YOKE, REPLACE (C) LABOR OPERATION K2764 TRANSMISSION REAR HOUSING, R & R (K) TIME
    IMPORTANT: LABOR OPERATION IS CODED TO BASE VEHICLE COVERAGE IN THE WARRANTY SYSTEM.

    FIGURES: 0 CAPTIONS: 0
    If the only purpose of the dampener is to reduce noise at idle, I think that I can likely do without spending the extra $500 at this time - unless popular opinion is that the rattle is also enough of a vibration to cause durability issues...
    '94 GMC 6.5TD K1500 4L80E 2-Door Yukon SLE 221K
    '93 Chevrolet 6.5TD K2500HD NV4500 Std. Cab Longbed 187K
    '85 Toyota 22R RN60 4x4 Std. Cab Shortbed 178K (Currently retired for rebuild)
    Diesel Page Member #2423

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Kelowna, BC
    Posts
    1,070

    Default Dampener

    Seems like it eh? If there isn't going to be damage resulting from not installing the dampener, why spend the extra?
    My truck is still sitting in the driveway awaiting some more TLC.
    1993 HD2500- 4X4, Nv4500, rc/lb, Lots of mods, killed her. Awaiting her TT rebuild!

    2002 Camaro L36/M49- Killed In Action

    1995 HD2500 - 4X4, NV4500 rc/lb, GL4, Turbo, exhaust

    1994 HD2500- 4X4, NV4500, ec/lb

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    SC
    Posts
    939

    Default

    I called around and asked too about SMF vs DMF before my tear down. Lots of parts houses list multiple versions on late 90's.

    I had factory SMF. Its common for it to tear up the clutch disc hub and pilot bearing. I have had one disc hub failure. Previous owner had a bad input bearing. So pick your problem. Ahhh GM clutches you really have to love a stick with GM.

    About half said dampener was required half said you could live w/o. Dodge does not incorporate a dampener with the 5.9 and its very very similar trans. I think the input shaft is different and a few other things but basically the same.

    Bleed the clutch with slow steady pumps and or take a long break I think the constant pumping froths the fluid and its less effective.

    Which pilot bearing did Southbend send and recommend? I read the bronze was preferred vs needle bearing.
    97 5spd K2500 Ext Cab short Bed ~160K miles.
    TM, 3" downpipe & 4" exhaust, remote FSD, remote oilfilter, Gauges: EGT, Boost, Fuel Pressure, B&W Gooseneck Turnover ball, Prodigy Brake Controller. Hi-Temp Hydraulic Oil Cooler Lines.

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Location
    South Central Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    2,697

    Default

    Southbend actually sends you a Kevlar pilot bearing - you can read their thoughts here: http://www.southbendclutch.com/kevlar.html
    '94 GMC 6.5TD K1500 4L80E 2-Door Yukon SLE 221K
    '93 Chevrolet 6.5TD K2500HD NV4500 Std. Cab Longbed 187K
    '85 Toyota 22R RN60 4x4 Std. Cab Shortbed 178K (Currently retired for rebuild)
    Diesel Page Member #2423

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    SC
    Posts
    939

    Default

    I was hesitant to post anything but was curious about the Kevlar. On one thread a while back someone said the bronze was junk and iirc did not think much of the Kevlar one either.

    I have read other good reports about the bronze. I have also read amazing stories of kevlar bushings in industrial applications. Not many like the needle bearing. Seeing it chewed up and gualled on the snout of my input shaft made me suspect it wasn't up to the task. Keep us posted how it stands up and how you like the SB clutch. Back when I was looking into it S.B. were still in favor of the DMF for the 6.5 but maybe with more history on the Kevlar pilot bushing they have leaned towards the SMF. They seem to be well respected for clutches.

    FYI check out quad4x4 dot com for other good tech on the NV4500.
    97 5spd K2500 Ext Cab short Bed ~160K miles.
    TM, 3" downpipe & 4" exhaust, remote FSD, remote oilfilter, Gauges: EGT, Boost, Fuel Pressure, B&W Gooseneck Turnover ball, Prodigy Brake Controller. Hi-Temp Hydraulic Oil Cooler Lines.

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Location
    South Central Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    2,697

    Default

    Thanks for the tip, Hubert - I've dealt with Quad4x4 in the past with excellent results.

    I'll definitely let people know how the South Bend parts hold up. On another board that I frequent, South Bend and the Kevlar stuff are said to be the only way to go.
    '94 GMC 6.5TD K1500 4L80E 2-Door Yukon SLE 221K
    '93 Chevrolet 6.5TD K2500HD NV4500 Std. Cab Longbed 187K
    '85 Toyota 22R RN60 4x4 Std. Cab Shortbed 178K (Currently retired for rebuild)
    Diesel Page Member #2423

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Location
    South Central Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    2,697

    Default

    6.5DD - Did you ever get things resolved? What did you find was the problem?
    '94 GMC 6.5TD K1500 4L80E 2-Door Yukon SLE 221K
    '93 Chevrolet 6.5TD K2500HD NV4500 Std. Cab Longbed 187K
    '85 Toyota 22R RN60 4x4 Std. Cab Shortbed 178K (Currently retired for rebuild)
    Diesel Page Member #2423

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Kelowna, BC
    Posts
    1,070

    Default Problem Found

    Sorry for not letting y'all know. I have been so stinkin' busy that the truck fell to the back burner and I ended up getting towed to a shop yesterday thinking that the clutch just had to be bled properly. $165 later the truck was back at my place. The mechanic figured that one of the fingers on the pressure plate was bent. It was $700 plus for them to do it, or myself. I pulled the t-case and tranny in a hour and a half. Sign that I have done it to much. Another 45 minutes later and the clutch pack was out and I was staring glumly at the exploded clutch plate. Exact same thing that happened when I first bought the truck. It doesn't make sense. The hardest work that I did with the truck was the 6,000+ lbs in the box the one time. I never towed with the truck, so I don't get why a clutch that should last an easy 60,000 miles would after barely 20,000. On the bright side, my buddy, who just had his NV4500 seize up after the rebuild shop failed to refill the oil, just pulled a tranny from the wreckers and is selling me the clutch pack for $50. So the problem has been found, I just have to put the stupid thing back together, again.
    I have to edit the pics and then I can upload them
    1993 HD2500- 4X4, Nv4500, rc/lb, Lots of mods, killed her. Awaiting her TT rebuild!

    2002 Camaro L36/M49- Killed In Action

    1995 HD2500 - 4X4, NV4500 rc/lb, GL4, Turbo, exhaust

    1994 HD2500- 4X4, NV4500, ec/lb

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •